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HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

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Old 23-08-2005, 17:50   #1
George
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Sybil

Okay.
This name, as so many things in JKR's world, has a significant historical background. Keeping true to my recent trend of encyclopedic threads, I've decided to recount the various Sybil's mentioned in legends and see how they link in to Harry.
Firstly, allow me to say that the name Sybil is NOT the way in which it was spelt in the legends Harry Potter is based on. The original version was "Sibyl". However, it has been distorted over the centuries to read "Sybil". Well, here goes:
1) This is, to me, the most important Sibyl of all. The Delphic Sibyl. Sibyl was the name of the high priestess that was presiding over the Apollonian Oracle at Delphi, which was a Greek Colony. It was said that Sibyl's powers came directly from Gaia, a goddess that, in Greek Myth, personifyes the Earth. The legend tells us that she gave advice to figures such as Aegeus, Oedipus, Herakles and Perseus. Similarly, Dumbledore goes to Sybil, in order to "hear her out". It was Sibyl who have Herakles (known, in Roman legends as Hercules) the twelve tasks as penance for killing his wife and children. It is said that Sibyl outlived nine generations of men, and that, when she died, she became a wondering voice that told the future to many ears, when dark tidings were at hand.
In a way, the Delphic Sibyl can be compared to Sybil Trelawney, as it is Sybil herself who makes the prophecy that concerns Harry, and can be compared to Sibyl giving Herakles twelve tasks- as Sibyl put a huge task on the shoulders of Herakles, Sybil does the same to Harry.
2) The Persian/Babylonic Sibyl. This was also the high priestess presiding over the Apollonian Oracle, though at a different time to the Delphic Sibyl. The Babylonic Sibyl (as I like to call her), is said to have foretold the coming of Alexander of Macedon (who, smart cookies will know, is Alexander the Great). In a similar fashion, Sybil talks of Harry's birth and his life, ("power to vanquish the Dark Lord"). This is a very obvious similarity between the Hogwarts teacher and the priestess.
3) The Erythraean Sibyl. This woman was sited in a town called Ionia. She is said to have been the one that predicts the Trojan War. Legend has it she prophesized to the Greeks that Troy would be destroyed, and that Homer would write lies. Funny how Sybill Trelawney predicted a kind of war (between Harry and Voldemort), and prophesized that Voldemort (who can represent Troy) would be destroyed.
Then there was also The Tiburtine Sibyl, who predicted the coming of the Christian Emperor Constantine, who would be the king of Romans and Greeks. We also hear the name of the Cumaean Sibyl quite often, who is said to have foretold the coming of a saviour, who Christians identified as Jesus Christ.
Although there were many Sibyls throughout history, they all had OTHER names, and were only referred to as Sibyls, when they reached a specific rank, and presided over an Apollonian Oracle. They were almost always said to have foretold the future AND GET IT RIGHT, which is something we do not always see in Trelawney. However, of the prophesies above, two of them stick out in my mind, and relate to the FUTURE of the fight between Voldemort and Harry.
Firstly, The Trojan War could represent the struggle between Harry and Voldemort. The Trojan War was won by the Greeks (represented by Harry), through the use of a Trojan Horse, a large, wooden animal, that was filled with warriors. This horse was the only thing left on the shores of Troy, where the Greeks had been fighting. All other armies left. The Trojans took the horse as a peace offering, and took it inside their fortress. It was then that the warriors in the horse burst out and defeated Troy, with the help of their other armies. So, Harry could have to use stealth against Voldemort, in order to defeat him, in the same way as the Greeks did to the Trojans. So, it may be that Harry ultimately defeats Voldemort through the use of a simple plan, as opposed to really complicated magic.
Now, the second, and more intriguing of the my catches is the one about Alexander of Macedon. HE died at the relatively young age of 33. However, he had achieved HUGE things, as he had pretty much singlehandedly brought down the Persian Empire, which, at the time was believed to be unstoppable. In the same way, Harry may defeat Voldemort, but face a premature death as well.
In conclusion, there are many "Sibyls" throughout history, that have foretold events. It is no coincidence that Sybill Trelawney is the name of the woman who made various prophesies about Harry and Lord Voldemort. However, is there any significance that I have left unnoticed. Has anything evaded me? In short, does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Old 24-08-2005, 00:52   #2
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Re: Sybil

Quote:
Firstly, The Trojan War could represent the struggle between Harry and Voldemort. The Trojan War was won by the Greeks (represented by Harry), through the use of a Trojan Horse, a large, wooden animal, that was filled with warriors. This horse was the only thing left on the shores of Troy, where the Greeks had been fighting. All other armies left. The Trojans took the horse as a peace offering, and took it inside their fortress. It was then that the warriors in the horse burst out and defeated Troy, with the help of their other armies. So, Harry could have to use stealth against Voldemort, in order to defeat him, in the same way as the Greeks did to the Trojans. So, it may be that Harry ultimately defeats Voldemort through the use of a simple plan, as opposed to really complicated magic.
When I read this, I pictured Harry facing Voldemort alone, but defeating him with a sudden burst from a power the Dark Lord knows not - one that Harry did not know himself - on Voldemort's territory...lets say for arguements sake that Voldemort takes control of the Ministry...and there is a certain locked room...well, you can probably see yourselves what came to my mind.


I do wonder how much research went into the characters over the years. Like, does JKR know about these other Sibyls?
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Old 24-08-2005, 03:52   #3
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Re: Sybil

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I do wonder how much research went into the characters over the years. Like, does JKR know about these other Sibyls?
I'm sure that she does, George is right, most of the names have meanings. I would have never realized it though if The Frozen North had not pointed it out.

George,
This is wonderful!
The only Sybil that you have missed is the one with multiple personalities, 16 I believe, and the only way that would fit is that they did do things without her knowledge. It was based on a real woman, but unfortunately, Sybil wasn't her real name, just a pseudonym, so I think you can safely say that you got them all

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So, it may be that Harry ultimately defeats Voldemort through the use of a simple plan, as opposed to really complicated magic.
This is just so smart, I was rereading some fo the battles with Voldermort and wondering how Harry was ever going to do it without Dumbledore, who was the one doing the complicated stuff. But there sure could be something simple that Voldermort overlooks, something 'basic' that goes under his radar.
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Old 27-08-2005, 06:01   #4
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Re: Sybil

The basic things always seem to go under his radar - he underestimates magic, forgets about magic, rushes into things without knowing full details, etc. All his mistakes seem to stem from that type of activity.

As for the Sybil/Sibyl things - I have always associated Sybil Trelawney with the Delphic Sybil in my mind. That was the first thing that came to mind while reading her name and I just always thought it a cute and amusing link to the idea of forecasting the future. The same with the author of Unfogging the Future - her name was Cassandra something and Cassandra was famous for also predicting the future.

However, now that I think about it, it seems that perhaps Cassandra would have been a better fit for Trelawney as Cassandra was doomed to always foretell the future, but to have people not believe her . . . sounds a lot like Trelawney. Trelawney does a lot of predicting and more often than not is correct in her visions, but people don't take her seriously at all.
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Old 20-02-2006, 15:35   #5
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Re: Sybil

Well my guess is also related to that but lets see if you remember what she said, she said she was the greatgranddaughter of a seer named Cassandr (I think I already wrote about that in another thread....so she can have inherited that problem.
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