Tom Riddle's Motivation

Boing · 07-05-2005, 19:47

After watching the TV airing of CoS tonight, I had some questions and went back to the book for answers - I never like to base posts on the movies as they can change things around too much.

So, in both the movie and the book, when Harry enters Tom Riddle's memories in the diary, he follows him to Dippet's (Hogwarts Headmaster) office where Dippet tells Tom that under the current circumstances, they cannot allow him to stay at Hogwarts over the holidays and that he would be safer at the Muggle orphanage.

Tom says, "Sir - if the person was caught - if it all stopped . . . "

It seems his only motivation for not letting the basilisk out anymore was so that he wouldn't have to go back to the orphanage.

He is obviously embarrassed about his heritage by his reddened face when Dippet asks about his parents and he has to say he has a Muggle father. This leads me to believe that at this point, he was somewhat normal. He simply didn't want to have to go back to the orphanage, so he stopped letting the basilisk out in the hopes that he would be allowed to stay at Hogwarts.

So, he wasn't completely bad to start off. JKR has already told us that he has never loved anyone, so we know he wasn't completely normal, but he seems to have normal teenage concerns (fitting in, etc.).

Do you guys think his motivation for framing Hagrid was to stop the worry over the basilisk to stay on at Hogwarts and just be normal or do you think it was to stay on at Hogwarts and further explore the Chamber/work on his hostile world takeover . . .

?

If it was to just be normal, was this a critical point for Tom Riddle? Would he have turned out differently if they had let him stay at Hogwarts that summer? Or was he just the ruthless killer from the start?

Fortescue · 08-05-2005, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boing

So, in both the movie and the book, when Harry enters Tom Riddle's memories in the diary, he follows him to Dippet's (Hogwarts Headmaster) office where Dippet tells Tom that under the current circumstances, they cannot allow him to stay at Hogwarts over the holidays and that he would be safer at the Muggle orphanage.

Actually, in the movie it was a much younger Dumbledore who Riddle met on the stairs - he even said Dumbledore's name, but in the book it was the headmaster's office and Dippet behind the desk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boing

Tom says, "Sir - if the person was caught - if it all stopped . . . "

It seems his only motivation for not letting the basilisk out anymore was so that he wouldn't have to go back to the orphanage.

He is obviously embarrassed about his heritage by his reddened face when Dippet asks about his parents and he has to say he has a Muggle father. This leads me to believe that at this point, he was somewhat normal. He simply didn't want to have to go back to the orphanage, so he stopped letting the basilisk out in the hopes that he would be allowed to stay at Hogwarts.

So, he wasn't completely bad to start off. JKR has already told us that he has never loved anyone, so we know he wasn't completely normal, but he seems to have normal teenage concerns (fitting in, etc.).

Do you guys think his motivation for framing Hagrid was to stop the worry over the basilisk to stay on at Hogwarts and just be normal or do you think it was to stay on at Hogwarts and further explore the Chamber/work on his hostile world takeover . . .

?

If it was to just be normal, was this a critical point for Tom Riddle? Would he have turned out differently if they had let him stay at Hogwarts that summer? Or was he just the ruthless killer from the start?

Good question Boing

I think Riddle wanted to stay where he had some type of power because in the Muggle orphanage he was powerless. At Hogwarts he already had followers; other Slytherins already were calling him Lord Voldemort - he didn't want that to end. He didn't care about being normal - his actions simply showed that he didn't want to be separated from Hogwarts and the only people who so far knew how powerful and evil he really was. I don't think he really cared that he could no longer open the chamber - it was more important to Tom to continue building his persona as Lord Voldemort then to allow the basilisk to continue killing Mudbloods.

kashlie · 08-05-2005, 04:49

I have to agree. He could cause more damage outside Hogwarts as Lord Voldemort than inside Hogwarts where if discovered he could be stopped.
I think his ultimate goal once gaining power outside, would be to converge on Hogwarts with the Death Eaters and release the Basilisk. (Does the real Voldemort know the basilisk is dead?)
It was important that not only the attacks stop, but the attention turned to believe the person responsible was gone. If someone wasn't caught, even if the attacks stopped, the school would be closed.

Sirius Potter Fan · 08-05-2005, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by kashlie

I have to agree. He could cause more damage outside Hogwarts as Lord Voldemort than inside Hogwarts where if discovered he could be stopped.
I think his ultimate goal once gaining power outside, would be to converge on Hogwarts with the Death Eaters and release the Basilisk. (Does the real Voldemort know the basilisk is dead?)
It was important that not only the attacks stop, but the attention turned to believe the person responsible was gone. If someone wasn't caught, even if the attacks stopped, the school would be closed.

I agree Kash...and as for Voldemort knowing the Basilisk was killed...I would say yes, at least I'm shure by book 4 or 5 he would have known, either by report from Lucious, Snape, or Crouch Jr. I'm sure any of them would have informed him, not because of concern for the basilisk, but to relate what Harry had done. Now, just curious what Voldemort thought about that. Did it upset him to know the basilisk was dead?

***Alz*** · 10-05-2005, 21:28

I think as much as Riddle may have had motivations and aspirations - he was still fearful of having to go back to the orphanage.
But look at it this way - if he did - he would have been removed from Hogwarts and the chamber - as such his work would have to stop again!
You can look at his actions in many ways - from a genuine dislike/fear of being back in the orphanage all the way to him being scared/annoyed/upset of being removed from the Chamber - especially as it seem he was just realising what it was all about.
I think his motivations in asking the question stemed from that fact he was finally home and needed to work some more on what the Chamber was and what secrets it held - he was in a place only a true decendant of Salazar could access and probably for one felt at home and like he was finally finding himself.

Boing · 11-05-2005, 04:25

I like the idea that he wanted to stick around and have free reign of the Chamber while there were fewer people around to notice what he was up to. If he knows or suspects there are more secrets to the Chamber other than the basilisk, then he just might try to come back into Hogwarts this time around and try to use whatever they are.

Sirius Potter Fan · 11-05-2005, 06:31

Do you think it possible that Riddle might have reentered the chamber during his 6th or 7th year? only without releasing the basilisk? and done some exploring? I am shure he wanted to...but do you think he did?

kashlie · 11-05-2005, 14:38

I don't think he did. After Myrtle died in the bathroom, and they knew it was because of the monster in the chamber, they would have been watching it closely. Also, I believe Dumbledore saw straight through Riddle and knew something was up, so watched him closely as well.
What I don't get, is why possess Ginny and release the Basilisk straight away? Unless he didn't...what if someone puts a spell on Ginny to access the memories from when she was possessed and find that she had explored the Chamber?

Padma Patil · 11-05-2005, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kashlie

Unless he didn't...what if someone puts a spell on Ginny to access the memories from when she was possessed and find that she had explored the Chamber?

But why would somebody want to do that unless there is something in the Chamber that we don't know about besides a dead basilisk?

I just don't know why somebody would want to see some gloomy old chamber?

kashlie · 11-05-2005, 15:08

I'm with the belief that Salazar wouldn't have built the chamber and only have the Basilisk in it. As far as I know, Salazar was a great wizard, and he most definately had strict beliefs. Riddle is his heir, and Salazar had to leave more for his heirs to find than just the Basilisk...like, once it had served its purpose, then what? After it has killed all the muggle borns half-bloods and half-breeds, what would the Heir do? Just own up to it or sink back into obscurity? There has to be something awaiting the true heir to aid in their take over of the school. Salazar would not have expected a student to do it. Riddle most likely knew this, but with his ambitions being so powerful thought he would try. He knows of the lengths he has gone to to preserve himself. Only he knows what is so interesting about that Chamber.
I think Voldemort will somehow get back into it, or at least Harry will see a vision and discover V's plans to get back down there, leading to the discovery of whatever other secrets it has.
When Riddle had to stop the attacks, it must have been hard. On one hand he had the chance to rid Hogwarts of all mudbloods, but on the other hand if there were any other attacks, then the school would close and there'd be no one left to attack, and he'd have to go to the orphanage.
I think weighing up the situation, he came to the conclusion that he could reopen the Chamber when he was in a better position to do so.